Defending Buffy
Aug. 21st, 2005 08:05 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
iceminkThe following is a reply to a Buffy debate started over in ![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
pfeifferpack journal. If you want to see the whole thread you cna find it here.
This is the sort of things that happens when I have too much time on my hand.
Hey, so seeing as how I'm bored and don't have much else to do, I've written kind of a long response to this, to which I guess there isn't much point because when all is said and done, which characters you like or dislike is a matter of taste. But here goes my defense of Buffy anyway. Also please not I don't have any of my Buffy DVDs right now, so I'm doing this all from memory, my apologies if I get anything wrong.
I don't dislike Buffy for the beating in the Alley. I dislike that after leaving the police station she walked right past that alley without stopping to check on him and then asked Tara why she 'lets Spike do those things' to her.
I find this kind of funny because I view it the opposite way. Although I understand why she beats up Spike, and do think he is culpable in it, I see her as still very much responsible for it, and it seems to me if she was going to make sure he was all right, the time to do it would be immediately after the beating, and before she gets herself arrested. I don't see her being as responsible for not checking on him, because I think it just never occurred to her. Her mind is obviously on Warren and the dead girl, and how to prove she didn't kill her. I also think that by Season 6, Spike is more or less indestructible in Buffy's mind. It obviously doesn't occur to her that he might be seriously hurt. Yes Buffy would be a better person had she stopped to check on him. She would have been an even better person still if she'd never allowed him to goad her into taking out her anger, hatred, and grief on him. I see this as a simple act of carelessness in the middle of a stressful situation. But you are right, it is a character flaw, and you're more than entitled to dislike her for flaws like this.
And she always managed to not mistreat her friends who were actually to blame for the cause of her depression. At all. Not even a harsh word.
Well, she did try to kill her friends. Remember the Doctor in Normal Again describes the period when she was dead as her being "sane" (I don't remember exactly how he puts it) and says it's her friends that brought her back into her delusion, that's why she has to kill them. And although she doesn't have many harsh words for them, she does blame them in her song in Once More With Feeling. Sure she doesn't yell at them and curse them, but I see that as a positive thing about Buffy. She understands why they did it, and knows they didn't mean to hurt her, and even though they are to blame, she forgives them. She doesn't constantly throw it back in their faces, and instead of constantly dwelling on it, she tries to move on with her life. Not that she always succeeds, but she does try.
But Dawn gets neglected and Spike gets beaten.
It's very clear that Dawn feels neglected. However, it is debatable whether Dawn if really neglected, or if she'd just a teenager. It's fairly clear from the show that Buffy's shift at the Doublemeat Palace goes into the night. We see her working at night in a couple episodes, and a couple other episodes where she's just getting off work at night. Which means that Buffy can't spend time with Dawn once she gets home from school. This isn't neglect, this is Buffy making sure Dawn has food, shelter, and clothing. Buffy also does have to patrol, this is also for Dawn's own good, because it keeps Sunnydale as safe as possible for a Hellmouth. It is true that Buffy is spending time with Spike as well. We simply have no way of telling how much time she is spending with Spike that she could be spending with Dawn.
Also, Dawn wants people to spend time with her, when she wants and is convenient for her. Look at the birthday episode. Dawn wants the Scoobies to help her find a present for Buffy, so she asks them at the last minute, and feels neglected when they'd already had plans. But when Xander and Anya have their impromptu engagement party, she want to stick around for what is an important moment for them, even when Buffy asks her too. She already had plans and has no intention of changing them for the others. She actually probably gets this from her sister. There's also an episode where Buffy wants to spend time with Dawn and the Scoobies, but they all have plans. Buffy however doesn't take this to mean that the others don't want to spend time with her, just that they have lives as well. Basically Dawn is a teenager, and thinks she should be the center of the universe. It is too her credit that she grows out of this so quickly.
And remember, Buffy is under no obligation to take care of Dawn. When their mother died, custody of Dawn should have gone to their father, but Buffy volunteered to be Dawn's legal guardian. A huge responsibility for a twenty year old. If she's not the perfect mom at 20/21 I think she deserves huge credit for doing her best, and putting her own wants on hold, so she can work at the Doublemeat Palace and take care of her sister.
As for Spike, he is the one who introduces almost all of the violence into their relationship. It is true that Buffy punched him in the nose for information a lot in Season 4. I can't remember whether she does it or not in Season 5, but I'm sure she's stopped by the time we get to Crush. (She may hit him in Crush, I don't know, but considering the cattle-prod, the chains, and the death threats, I don't think you can hold that against her.) But by the time you get to Season 6 she usually only hits him when he "starts it."
In Once More With Feeling, Spike attack a funeral party and she hits him. But he attacked first, and it's hard to know how much control any of the characters have over their actions when in the middle of a music number anyway.
Buffy hits Spike at the beginning of Smashed. This is the one punch that really is just her aggression. Spike is annoying her, refuses to leave her alone, and he does grab her, but yeah she does overreact here.
Then there is of course the big fight that leads to sex in Smashed. Spike looks for Buffy intending to start a fight. She does throw the first blow, but only after repeatedly trying to ignore/get away from Spike. He continues to get in her way, until she hits him, because for some reason he wants her to hit him first. Still it's clear that he's trying to start a fight with her.
Then of course there is the beating in Dead Things. But again, it's Spike who pushes Buffy to be violent. Most of the time when we see their relationship in Season 6, Spike is actually the aggressor. That doesn't mean that Buffy isn't emotionally abusive to Spike, or doesn't treat him badly. But most of the time she's trying to stay away from him, and he's the one who seeks her out, and pushes her back into their relationship.
I actually dislike all the main characters at this point. Which is why I'm a bigger fan of the fanfiction than the show. And why I love season 4 and 5 fics. And Spike, Tara, Anya and Dawn stories, of which there aren't nearly enough.
Well now we're firmly in the land of personal taste so there's no real argument here. I do kind of wonder what it is that you liked about the show that made you watch it. I can tell you what I like about the show. I like the character's flaws. I can identify with Buffy, Willow, and Xander (and all the others too) when they mess up. Someone once described the show as nerds saving the world. I see it as being about very imperfect people who manage to pull it together when it really matters (much like Anya's speech to Andrew at the end of Season 7). I love the characters for their flaws, not their virtues. Spike is my favorite character, and my favorites Spike moments, are not when he triumphs but when he fails. My favorite Spike is one who is trying to be good, but just can't quite get it right.
pfeifferpack journal. If you want to see the whole thread you cna find it here.This is the sort of things that happens when I have too much time on my hand.
Hey, so seeing as how I'm bored and don't have much else to do, I've written kind of a long response to this, to which I guess there isn't much point because when all is said and done, which characters you like or dislike is a matter of taste. But here goes my defense of Buffy anyway. Also please not I don't have any of my Buffy DVDs right now, so I'm doing this all from memory, my apologies if I get anything wrong.
I don't dislike Buffy for the beating in the Alley. I dislike that after leaving the police station she walked right past that alley without stopping to check on him and then asked Tara why she 'lets Spike do those things' to her.
I find this kind of funny because I view it the opposite way. Although I understand why she beats up Spike, and do think he is culpable in it, I see her as still very much responsible for it, and it seems to me if she was going to make sure he was all right, the time to do it would be immediately after the beating, and before she gets herself arrested. I don't see her being as responsible for not checking on him, because I think it just never occurred to her. Her mind is obviously on Warren and the dead girl, and how to prove she didn't kill her. I also think that by Season 6, Spike is more or less indestructible in Buffy's mind. It obviously doesn't occur to her that he might be seriously hurt. Yes Buffy would be a better person had she stopped to check on him. She would have been an even better person still if she'd never allowed him to goad her into taking out her anger, hatred, and grief on him. I see this as a simple act of carelessness in the middle of a stressful situation. But you are right, it is a character flaw, and you're more than entitled to dislike her for flaws like this.
And she always managed to not mistreat her friends who were actually to blame for the cause of her depression. At all. Not even a harsh word.
Well, she did try to kill her friends. Remember the Doctor in Normal Again describes the period when she was dead as her being "sane" (I don't remember exactly how he puts it) and says it's her friends that brought her back into her delusion, that's why she has to kill them. And although she doesn't have many harsh words for them, she does blame them in her song in Once More With Feeling. Sure she doesn't yell at them and curse them, but I see that as a positive thing about Buffy. She understands why they did it, and knows they didn't mean to hurt her, and even though they are to blame, she forgives them. She doesn't constantly throw it back in their faces, and instead of constantly dwelling on it, she tries to move on with her life. Not that she always succeeds, but she does try.
But Dawn gets neglected and Spike gets beaten.
It's very clear that Dawn feels neglected. However, it is debatable whether Dawn if really neglected, or if she'd just a teenager. It's fairly clear from the show that Buffy's shift at the Doublemeat Palace goes into the night. We see her working at night in a couple episodes, and a couple other episodes where she's just getting off work at night. Which means that Buffy can't spend time with Dawn once she gets home from school. This isn't neglect, this is Buffy making sure Dawn has food, shelter, and clothing. Buffy also does have to patrol, this is also for Dawn's own good, because it keeps Sunnydale as safe as possible for a Hellmouth. It is true that Buffy is spending time with Spike as well. We simply have no way of telling how much time she is spending with Spike that she could be spending with Dawn.
Also, Dawn wants people to spend time with her, when she wants and is convenient for her. Look at the birthday episode. Dawn wants the Scoobies to help her find a present for Buffy, so she asks them at the last minute, and feels neglected when they'd already had plans. But when Xander and Anya have their impromptu engagement party, she want to stick around for what is an important moment for them, even when Buffy asks her too. She already had plans and has no intention of changing them for the others. She actually probably gets this from her sister. There's also an episode where Buffy wants to spend time with Dawn and the Scoobies, but they all have plans. Buffy however doesn't take this to mean that the others don't want to spend time with her, just that they have lives as well. Basically Dawn is a teenager, and thinks she should be the center of the universe. It is too her credit that she grows out of this so quickly.
And remember, Buffy is under no obligation to take care of Dawn. When their mother died, custody of Dawn should have gone to their father, but Buffy volunteered to be Dawn's legal guardian. A huge responsibility for a twenty year old. If she's not the perfect mom at 20/21 I think she deserves huge credit for doing her best, and putting her own wants on hold, so she can work at the Doublemeat Palace and take care of her sister.
As for Spike, he is the one who introduces almost all of the violence into their relationship. It is true that Buffy punched him in the nose for information a lot in Season 4. I can't remember whether she does it or not in Season 5, but I'm sure she's stopped by the time we get to Crush. (She may hit him in Crush, I don't know, but considering the cattle-prod, the chains, and the death threats, I don't think you can hold that against her.) But by the time you get to Season 6 she usually only hits him when he "starts it."
In Once More With Feeling, Spike attack a funeral party and she hits him. But he attacked first, and it's hard to know how much control any of the characters have over their actions when in the middle of a music number anyway.
Buffy hits Spike at the beginning of Smashed. This is the one punch that really is just her aggression. Spike is annoying her, refuses to leave her alone, and he does grab her, but yeah she does overreact here.
Then there is of course the big fight that leads to sex in Smashed. Spike looks for Buffy intending to start a fight. She does throw the first blow, but only after repeatedly trying to ignore/get away from Spike. He continues to get in her way, until she hits him, because for some reason he wants her to hit him first. Still it's clear that he's trying to start a fight with her.
Then of course there is the beating in Dead Things. But again, it's Spike who pushes Buffy to be violent. Most of the time when we see their relationship in Season 6, Spike is actually the aggressor. That doesn't mean that Buffy isn't emotionally abusive to Spike, or doesn't treat him badly. But most of the time she's trying to stay away from him, and he's the one who seeks her out, and pushes her back into their relationship.
I actually dislike all the main characters at this point. Which is why I'm a bigger fan of the fanfiction than the show. And why I love season 4 and 5 fics. And Spike, Tara, Anya and Dawn stories, of which there aren't nearly enough.
Well now we're firmly in the land of personal taste so there's no real argument here. I do kind of wonder what it is that you liked about the show that made you watch it. I can tell you what I like about the show. I like the character's flaws. I can identify with Buffy, Willow, and Xander (and all the others too) when they mess up. Someone once described the show as nerds saving the world. I see it as being about very imperfect people who manage to pull it together when it really matters (much like Anya's speech to Andrew at the end of Season 7). I love the characters for their flaws, not their virtues. Spike is my favorite character, and my favorites Spike moments, are not when he triumphs but when he fails. My favorite Spike is one who is trying to be good, but just can't quite get it right.
