Musings poll

[icemink]

So I was reading through the suggestions for meta topics at buffyversemeta and my brain started spinning as it is wont to do. So I started thinking about Jasmine, and whether she really was one of the PTBs and if she was, what does that say about Darla's appearance in "Inside Out"? I couldn't really think of a way to turn it into a good meta jumping off point, because all you can really do is speculate about it, but I wanted to know what other people thought was a likely explanation of Darla's ghost.

[Poll #1003846]

Comments

[lafemmedarla]

I really don't have a straight answer for this. I always wondered myself who send Darla, but never came with a definitive theory.

I'd like to think that she was free agent, because the thought of somebody else using her still makes me a little sad (after everything done by Wolfram and Hart, then Angel....)

I don't reall think she was The First though.

Damnit, now you have trying to think.... my head hurts. Want me to pimp this out? Maybe another of my Darla-loving friends may have theories.

[icemink.livejournal.com]

Pimping this out would be great. Mostly I just want to know what people think about it. I agree, I like the idea that she was acting on her own the best, because not only does it mean she wasn't a pawn, but it also implies a special connection between her and Connor.

[lafemmedarla]

I'm a sucker for the Darla and Connor connection. That little moment with her trying to stop him was just heartbreaking. And of course, she sorta had to get killed. She's the Kenny of the Jossverse! I think I'd go with free agent for sure.

Will pimp around.

[bookishwench.livejournal.com]

Hi. Here via lafemmedarla. She can't be The First because I believe Connor was able to physically touch her. I'm not sure if she's able to show up because they shared a soul, but there could be a connection to Angel's Trial deal with owing Darla a life.

[kita0610.livejournal.com]

If you read the transcripts, you'll see that Darla says nothing to Connor that she hasn't already said before, to someone, over the course of her tenure on AtS. She was pretty much just an echo of herself. If that had been the Real Darla, she'd have had a much more powerful moment. This was just...sad. And doomed to fail, so I hope it wasn't really her. It's obviously no accident that her speech was limited, I am just not sure *what* that was meant to convey.

[icemink.livejournal.com]

Oh does he really touch her? I haven't watched the episode in a while, and my DVDs are packed away at the moment. You're right though, that means she can't be the First.

[icemink.livejournal.com]

You're right, there was something not quite Darla like about her. I've thought about that before, and one of my theories is that it was the PTB that sent her, but only her soul. So most of her personality was kind of washed out, so that she could be this peaceful person.

[kita0610.livejournal.com]

I was never convinced that the PTB were good guys in the first place. Or even that they were not actually the Senior Partners. I think S6 was meant to explain all that. Alas.

They were clearly trying to explain SOMETHING with Darla, but yea. I'm still not sure what.

[xanphibian.livejournal.com]

I agree with Kita, that she was probably just an echo. Connor was definitely in need of something, and the ... well, what was left of her spirit on earth was able to come to him and communicate because he needed it so badly. At one time I thought she WAS the First, but it doesn't quite click to me as the explanation. (I've also had thoughts that since Connor just wasn't quite right in the head right then, it was a sort of biological memory of Darla somehow imprinted on Connor at the time of his birth coming through, that she wasn't *really* there at all)

[icemink.livejournal.com]

My theory on the Senior Partners vs. the PTB is that both of them are made up of two factions of the Old Ones, who are still battling it out over our dimension.

[kita0610.livejournal.com]

That would follow some of the plot, yea.

I wonder if the comics will go the way S6 would have gone, since they're being written by Joss et al, and are supposedly canon.

I miss my dead gay show. :(

[icemink.livejournal.com]

Hmm, interesting. I've certainly wondered if she was mostly "in his head" but I think she must have been at least somewhat separate than him, because Cordelia becomes aware of her. Of course she could have not been Darla at all, just someone trying to stop Connor mystically.

[icemink.livejournal.com]

I'm not liking S8 so far, except for the reveal in the last pages of #4. But there's going to be a S6 written by Brian Lynch, who is pretty fantastic, so I'm hopeful about that.

[kita0610.livejournal.com]

BtVS was never my show in the same way Angel was, so I care less. I figure if S6 sucks, I'll just throw it away and live in denial it ever happened.

What was the reveal in 4? I haven't even bothered to get that far yet. Although the B/A/S threesome Buffy dream panel rocked out loud.

[xanphibian.livejournal.com]

I think that if someone was trying to stop Connor with the best incarnation it knew of, Holtz would have been the better candidate. I think Connor would have been more likely to listen to the man he grew up with rather than a woman he'd never seen before. (But that wouldn't have set up the same kind of mom vs. mom thing that was going on with Cordy and Darla)

[icemink.livejournal.com]

The general is part of a mysterious orginization that uses that sunset tattoo to identify their members. They believe that now that their is an army of slayers loose in the world, the slayers will kill all the demons. The problem is, they believe the slayers will still be driven to slay and will turn against humanity. So it's sort of an X-Men like plot, but he does kind of have a point. Buffy did majorly upset the balance between good and evil, slayers do go bad, and since they were all infused with the "heart of a demon" they really might continue to be violent even if they drove the demons into extinction.

[icemink.livejournal.com]

Good point. Although the fact that it was his mother was one of the things that drew me to The First. The First loves mothers, and also seems to prefer to appear as women. Out of all the incarnations, I can only think of three times The First appears as a man. She does it with one of Angelus' victims in Amends. She also appears to Andrew as Warren, but there is no female that would work in Andrew's case. Similarly, the First appears as the Mayor because Faith doesn't have any woman she identifies with (except I think maybe her first Watcher was a woman, but since we've never seen her, it wouldn't have meant as much to the viewers).

[kita0610.livejournal.com]

Cool. I'm glad he's addressing the skewed balance of power thing. Dana was one of my favorite parts of S5.

[http://users.livejournal.com/peasant_/]

There are quite a few manifestations as a male:
Daniel and some modern businessman to Angel
Warren and Jonathan to Andrew
The Mayor to Faith and Spike
The Master and Adam to Spike
Spike to Spike

Against which we have:
The maid and Jenny to Angel
Glory and Drusilla to Spike
Niki to Robin Wood
Choir girl to Caleb
Cassie to Willow
Eve and Chloe to the potentials
Buffy to Caleb, Buffy and Spike

[icemink.livejournal.com]

Ah yes, I'd completely forgotten about the First's parade of villians at the very beginning of s7. Somehow I'd forgotten about Jonathan too. So you're right, The First does seem pretty equal opportunity.

[http://users.livejournal.com/peasant_/]

I think you are right that in terms of time on screen the First spent far more time as women than men, but it is obviously perfectly happy to appear as men if it wants too.

Oh, I've just remembered Caleb as another man it appeared as!


As regards Darla appearing, I had a thought - a 'ghost' that can touch does have a precedent on the show in Lessons: manifest spirits, raised by a talisman to seek vengeance. Not quite sure how that might apply, but it shows that ghosts that can touch are not entirely outside other canon experience.